"Some lives aren't worth saving."
— Ogen, Octopath Traveler
The Hero has been trying to make the villain see the light for a while now. Perhaps the hero's said that Good Feels Good, but the villain has thrown it back in his face and said that Evil Feels Good. Maybe the hero has appealed to what they hope is the villain's true self inside, only to find they were acting of their own free will.
Perhaps the villain has Kicked the Dog and rejected any chance at changing his wicked ways one too many times. Maybe the villain has realized the error of his ways, so he wants to change his ways and become good; however, the villain has done something so bad, there's no becoming good now. Or maybe the villain repaid a genuine act of kindness with even more evil.
At that point, the hero comes to a sad realization: the villain is beyond redemption, and must be dealt with once and for all in order to keep the villain from hurting any more people.
Beyond Redemption occurs when a hero has been making a consistent effort to have a villain turn away from evil and become The Atoner, but eventually stops trying. This is often a bad sign for the villain; whereas the hero might have not gone into a fight at full power before, now The Gloves Come Off and they stop holding back. Often occurs towards the climax of a story (especially before the Final Battle, so the hero can really cut loose). Note it's still possible for the villain to pull a Heel–Face Turn for some other reason after a hero decides they're Beyond Redemption. What matters for this trope is that a hero had been trying to turn the villain good, but has given up.
Usually seen in media aimed at young adults and older, or on the cynical end of the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism. Long-running series often go about this as a way of raising the stakes; if the audience knows that the hero won't go the merciful route anymore, there's sure to be some escalation of tension. If the villain himself thinks he's not worth redeeming, he might say "I've Come Too Far" and decide that he'll make no effort at redemption due to feeling that he deserves whatever's coming to him.
See also This Is Unforgivable! Compare Complete Monster, who can easily become this in short time. May result in Even the Loving Hero Has Hated Ones. Contrast Even Evil Can Be Loved, Good Cannot Comprehend Evil, and Easily Forgiven. Not to be confused with It Is Beyond Saving, which is about a place that can't be rebuilt.
This trope uses In-Universe Examples Only; it is when a character in the work itself has the opinion that a villainous character is beyond redemption. The Out-of-Universe variant is Moral Event Horizon.
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Anime & Manga
- Akame ga Kill!: Tatsumi hoped Love Redeems would work on General Esdeath despite his own fear of her. But when she divulges her origins, he's confronted not with a tragic backstory, but the makings of a monster. Esdeath's village and father were destroyed, but due to her father's teachings sticking to her stronger than they should, she did not mourn his death because it meant he was weak. The teigu she used, despite the dangers, did not drive her insane — she embraced its power. Realizing she was a sadistic killer long before she joined the Empire, Tatsumi realizes redemption is impossible for Esdeath and she must be brought down.
- In Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba, while there are a few other demons who are complete monsters in and of themselves (Doma & Hantengu for example), Muzan Kibutsuji is the primary example of an irredeemably evil demon in this story. His vile atrocities and nasty personality in general, even back as a human, make it unambiguously clear how much of a bastard he truly is and that there is no chance of redeeming a deranged Sociopath like him. Even the kind and pure-hearted Tanjiro Kamado finds Muzan Kibutsuji as the one true demon in the world and declares him an irredeemable monster.
- Dragon Ball:
- Dragon Ball Z: Despite Cell being a monster who drank 600,000 innocent people, murdered thousands of others on his quest for perfection, killed an alternative version of Future Trunks, and nearly killed Piccolo, Gohan is still unwilling to kill him and begs Cell to repent for his crimes. It's not until Cell crushes 16's head underfoot that he finally crosses the line with Gohan; reaching his Rage Breaking Point, Gohan goes Super Saiyan 2 and does everything he can to make Cell suffer as much as possible for what he's done.
- Dragon Ball Super: Zamasu is initially a well-meaning Supreme Kai, but soon ends up Jumping Off the Slippery Slope, becoming an Ax-Crazy Knight Templar who's willing to commit genocide and mass murder in the name of his idea of justice. Gowasu still tries to reach out to him, even after finding out about the atrocities Zamasu has committed in Future Trunks' timeline and seeing the results with his own eyes, pleading with him to use the Super Dragon Balls to fix the damage he's done. In response, Zamasu smugly reveals that he and Goku Black destroyed the Super Dragon Balls to prevent anyone from using them against them and tries to kill Gowasu on the spot; it's this that finally forces Gowasu to acknowledge that Zamasu is beyond reason and has to be stopped.
- Dragon Ball GT: Baby took over the entire planet and turned all of Goku's friends and loved ones against him, among other atrocities. As such, he's the one villain Goku had ever actually killed while they were not only defeated, but retreating.
- In Fist of the North Star, Toki uses his humanity to save quite a few people, and the few people he does kill are presented with painless deaths. It is said that Toki is The Heart, and the only reason he wasn't the successor to Hokuto Shinken was coming down with radiation poisoning. However Raoh's ambitions caused his Start of Darkness to the point that Raoh himself told Toki if he went the wrong path, Toki would be the one to seal his fists. Indeed, Toki eventually decides that Raoh has to be stopped one way or the other after seeing his path of devastation as Ken-Oh, using a Dangerous Forbidden Technique to battle against Raoh. Even then, Toki tries talking Raoh down a few times first, and when it's clear that Raoh won't listen, Toki goes all out.
- Fullmetal Alchemist:
- This almost happens to Roy Mustang once he finds out that Envy was responsible for the death of Maes Hughes. Roy roasts Envy to hell and back, until it's reduced to its true form. Edward stops Roy before he can kill Envy, and warns him that he has the face of a man who would not be worthy to lead Amestris. With the help of Hawkeye, and Scar of all people, Roy is able to come to his senses and stops himself from killing Envy. Envy cannot understand why they stopped Roy from killing them, and when Edward tells them that he pities them, Envy kills themselves as they couldn't bear the fact that their enemy pitied them, and Ed doesn't bother to stop them because he felt that Envy didn't deserve to live for causing the Ishvalan War of Extermination.
- Played straight with Father. In spite of all he's done and intends to do, Hohenheim still tries to talk to him and make him see reason. However, his pride causes him to ignore Hohenheim's words, and in the end, he's banished to the Gate of Truth from whence he came for all eternity.
- Healin' Good♡Pretty Cure: Daruizen may be the Starter Villain of the series, but he's also the most dangerous, lacking any comical attributes his other allies have. He was responsible for the sickness that physically crippled Nodoka/Cure Grace for most of her childhood, has major bouts of apathy, and likes to experiment with his Byo-gen Mega Part powers on innocent animals and other humans, one of which he forced injected into Nodoka to briefly create his own partner Kedary. When threatened with death by the Big Bad via assimilation, Daruizen pleaded to Nodoka to let him return to her body so he can recover and escape persecution. Nodoka, knowing full well Daruizen would harm again afterwards, rejects his cries and leaves him to his fate.
- In Inuyasha, Naraku was created when Onigumo, a human, had merged with a swarm of yokai. Because of this, Kikyo believed that there was a possibility that Naraku could be redeemed. When he nearly kills her at Mt. Hakurei and Kagome saves her, Kikyo realizes she was wrong and Naraku is beyond any hope of redemption.
- Is It My Fault That I Got Bullied?: Shinji Suzuki was a bully as a child, and wasn't much better as an adult. His one redeeming quality is that he genuinely loves his daughter, Shiori. When Shinji learns that Shiori is being bullied, his daughter blames him for his advice that it’s the victim's fault for being bullied, and she moves in with her maternal grandparents. Shinji realized how badly he messed up, and goes to school to thank the teacher who protected his daughter. But then he learns that the teacher who protected his daughter was his former victim, Aizawa. Even after Aizawa offers Shinji one last chance to think about what he did, Shinji chooses to brag about being a bully and remains unrepentant. This makes Aizawa declare war on him and proceed with revenge plans. Shiori even gives Aizawa her blessing to get revenge on Shinji after Shinji tries turning her against Aizawa.
- Dio Brando from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has a weird history with this trope. At first, the Joestar family attempts to look past his Card-Carrying Villain status and accept him as one of their own, but once he rejects his humanity and becomes a vampire, he's ultimately seen as no longer worth saving. However, once Jonathan finds out that Dio wasn't actually killed by him, the trope gets subverted, as Jonathan makes one final effort to reform Dio by embracing his disembodied head as he's about to die. The result of this is Jonathan dying, and Dio surviving to steal Jonathan's body. Once Dio returns two parts later, this trope gets double subverted by the greater Joestar bloodline viewing Dio as the worst person alive and the biggest threat to their lineage, whom they must kill at all costs.
- Jujutsu Kaisen:
- Yuji accepts that all curses are this after Mahito transfigures Junpei and him and Sukuna laugh at his failure to save his friend.
- After Satoru Gojo is finally released from the Prison Realm and learns all the obstructive nonsense the Jujutsu higher-ups were up to in his absence, he finally decides to follow through with the threat he's been making for years and slaughters them all.
- The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (2016): Once he loses to Link in their final confrontation, Zant has a Heel Realization over the fact that he never cared about the Twilight Realm, and only ever wanted to get over his own self-hatred by dominating it. When Link tries to reach out to him further, he angrily doubles down and declares his allegiance to Ganondorf once more, leading Midna to kill him with the Fused Shadow.
- In Monster Rancher, The Searchers are looking for the Phoenix so that he can undo The Corruption that Moo has caused and release all of his followers. Some of the Searchers firmly believe that even Moo can be purified by the Phoenix, stating as much multiple times, while the more cynical members aren't convinced. Their first encounter with Moo turns into a Curb-Stomp Battle, and Moo makes clear that he is legitimately evil incarnate. Following this, the Searchers agree that he's beyond any sort of redemption. Even after the Phoenix is unleashed, purifying all of the other monsters, Moo is simply sealed away, and one of the main goals of the final season is figuring out some way to get rid of him for good.
- Mobile Suit Victory Gundam: Katejina sending out the Bikini Assault team armed with only bazookas to take on Uso. These ladies, all mobile suit pilots for Zanscare, die without a shred of dignity or a shred of a chance. Even worse, Katejina knew they didn't stand a chance and only sent them out as Cannon Fodder so she could try to disturb and traumatize Uso enough to kill him herself. Before this, Uso thought Katejina was being brainwashed and frequently left her alive or attempted to talk her down. After this, Uso finally decides Katejina is a lost cause and aims right for her cockpit, nearly killing her and leaving her stunned that Uso finally fought back for real.
- My Hero Academia, despite the protagonists desiring to save their villains, only a select few (Gentle, La Brava, Lady Nagant) get a redemption:
- Yoichi wants to believe his older brother All For One is capable of kindness because he held his hand when they were babies. However, All For One is very possessive and controlling of Yoichi and impulsively kills him when Kudo, a member of the rebellion, saves him. While his desire to get One For All back is to reunite with his brother, he's otherwise a totally heartless individual who wants to be a demon lord forever. Despite admitting in his final moments that he truly loves his brother, he is put down by the One For All users, including his successor Shigaraki, without any form of redemption.
- Zigzagged in the case of Toga. Ochaco wants to try and understand her after she sees her crying after their first fight. Eventually, in the final battle, while Toga doesn't show remorse for her crimes nor does she stop loving the League, Ochaco's sympathy DOES reach through to her and push her to pull a Heroic Sacrifice to save Ochaco's life.
- Downplayed with Tomura Shigaraki. The main protagonist, Izuku Midoriya, wants to try and save him after he sees a crying child inside of his mind. During the final battle, Shigaraki claims he's moved past his humanity while Midoriya continues to believe that he's still a human deep inside. After invading Shigaraki's mind, ultimately Midoriya is proven right as once he stops Shigaraki from killing his family again and shows genuine sympathy for him, Shigaraki's unable to kill him and lets go of his hatred. Although he doesn't change his ways, it's not out of malice but rather because he believes "the villains need a hero of their own.” After All For one possess his body again, Shigaraki pulls an Enemy Mine and helps Midoryia and the One For All users kill him for good and admits maybe he was just a crying kid deep down. While he tells Midoriya to tell his Best Friend Spinner "Tomura Shigaraki fought for destruction until the bitter end", he's shown to be genuinely content with trusting Midoriya to lead society into a better future, even encouraging him to do his best with a genuine smile. All Might feels even if Midoriya couldn’t save his life, he did save his soul.
- The Todoroki family wants to save Dabi, the firstborn son, after he reveals his true identity. Shoto manages to defeat Dabi non-lethally, begging him to just direct his rage towards his family. However, Dabi gets right back up and proceeds to tun himself into essentially a walking nuke, trying to blow himself up in a last ditch attempt to kill not only his father but as many civilians as possible in his final moments out of spite, including his own family. Even after his family works together to stop the explosion and apologizes to him, Dabi remains remorseless, cursing his entire family and maintaining he hates all of them, though he does at least apologize to Shoto at the very end after telling him he liked soba as well.
- Naruto:
- In the past, Jiraiya tried to convince his former friend and teammate Orochimaru not to leave the Hidden Leaf Village behind for more power, but Orochimaru rejected Jiraiya's pleas. Since then, Jiraiya has given up on trying to redeem Orochimaru since he chose to defect of his own free will. Jiraiya even tries to convince Naruto not to chase after Sasuke when he followed a similar path, but Naruto has none of it. Post Fourth Shinobi World War, this becomes subverted when Orochimaru came to rethink his own ideals due to Sasuke's influence, thus contributing to the war and entered a truce with Konohagakure; unfortunately, Jiraiya did not live to reconcile with his old teammate, something Orochimaru did lament.
Naruto: If abandoning a friend is what it means to be smarter, I'd rather be a fool for my entire life!
- Obito Uchiha believed himself to be this. He was on the side of good by this point but believed his actions in the past made him this trope. Despite this, he does his best to try to do whatever good he can before he dies. How much he redeemed himself is perhaps a matter of perception.
- In the past, Jiraiya tried to convince his former friend and teammate Orochimaru not to leave the Hidden Leaf Village behind for more power, but Orochimaru rejected Jiraiya's pleas. Since then, Jiraiya has given up on trying to redeem Orochimaru since he chose to defect of his own free will. Jiraiya even tries to convince Naruto not to chase after Sasuke when he followed a similar path, but Naruto has none of it. Post Fourth Shinobi World War, this becomes subverted when Orochimaru came to rethink his own ideals due to Sasuke's influence, thus contributing to the war and entered a truce with Konohagakure; unfortunately, Jiraiya did not live to reconcile with his old teammate, something Orochimaru did lament.
Comic Books
- Batman Vampire: In Crimson Mist, Batman has fully succumbed to his vampire nature and feeds on his Rogues Gallery before beheading them; he's fully aware of what a monster he's become, but is no longer capable of fighting it and is convinced he's taken in too much evil from his victims to be redeemed, reflecting he may very well destroy the world if he isn't stopped. Commissioner Gordon even insists to Alfred that they have to put him down, making the point that Batman killing anyone is proof that the good man he was no longer exists.
Batman: I have lost all life, so I steal it. I am death, so I bring it. I am damned, and the world may be doomed, its sheep without shepherd, ready for its slaughter. And worst of all, the lost shepherd was me.
- A variation in The Killing Joke. Batman tries to extend a last chance at redemption to the Joker. For a moment, Joker actually thinks about it but decides that it's much too late for him, a conclusion Batman appears to accept.
Batman: We could work together. I could rehabilitate you. You don't need to be out there on the edge anymore. You needn't be alone. We don't have to kill each other. What do you say?
(Beat Panel, as Joker seriously considers it)
Joker: No. I'm sorry, but... no. It's too late for that. Far too late. - Star Wars: Darth Vader and its prequel Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith reveal its lead character as this through his various exploits. Though viewed as The Dreaded to the galaxy at large, he feels that his various actions have made him unfit to be redeemed, and serving the Emperor is the only way he can aptly punish himself.
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mirage): In the short story "Swan Song", taking place in the future, Radical, who had become Leonardo's love interest by that time, is attacked by her Arch-Enemy Complete Carnage, who snaps her neck right in front of Leo. Many years later, Leo, having become a Buddhist monk, tracks Carnage down to Hong Kong, where he has kidnapped several people, intending to forgive him for Radical's murder and free the hostages. During the ensuing fight, Leo tries to persuade Carnage to give up his evil ways and learn to understand the true value of life... but when Carnage gleefully kills one of his hostages and mocks Radical's death to Leo's face, Leo snaps, declares that Carnage is irredeemable, and slices him clean in two; that being said, Leo's killing Carnage in a rage is depicted as a Moment of Weakness on his part.
Leo: You killed her... Like it was nothing... Like you did Radical. I really did come here to forgive you. But you... You're not worthy of forgiveness!
- Wonder Woman Vol 1: Aphrodite may be behind the Amazon culture of love and redemption of their criminals, but she's still an Olympian. On a couple of occasions, most notably with Atomia, she decides people are beyond redemption and traps them in And I Must Scream situations.
- X-Men: For a while following her Heel–Face Turn, Rogue believed that she was Beyond Redemption for what she had done to Carol Danvers as well as for her actions in general as a member of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. It took roughly a year in real publishing time for her to finally realize that redemption was indeed possible for her. Even after that, though, she was still reluctant to be faced with reminders of her past.
Films — Animation
- Aladdin and the King of Thieves:
- Deconstructed with Cassim. While Aladdin tries to believe that Cassim will change, Cassim attempting to steal the Oracle for the second time means Aladdin concludes that his father is too far gone to help. But Cassim feels much the same, and believes that since he's gone this far, he may as well just keep going. It's not that Cassim doesn't want to change his ways, it's that he feels as though he is too deep in the life of a criminal to just quit. Cassim has a fierce determination to find the ultimate treasure, but at the expense of his own morals, and even at the expense of the family he's ostensibly doing all of it for. Even by the end of the film, when Aladdin and Cassim have come to a mutual understanding, Cassim still keeps being a criminal and still doesn't end up as a part of his son's life.
- Played Straight with Sa'luk, who is completely irredeemable to a great degree, given that he's far worse than his former ally Cassim. Such incapability for redemption of his is further proven when Cassim gave to him the Hand of Midas in exchange for Aladdin's safety, which he didn't offer back out of his general ruthlessness, though ironically, this backfired on him horribly due to his ignorance from instantly obtaining the hand itself.
Sa'luk: The Hand of Midas is MINE! Ha, ha, ha! And also, the life of your brat!
- In Beauty and the Beast (1991), Belle repeatedly makes it clear she's not interested in Gaston, with everything from gentle rebukes to throwing him out of her house, all while hoping Gaston gets the hint and backs off. When Gaston rallies the villagers and prepares for an assault on the Beast's castle, Belle tells Gaston that he's the real monster, not the Beast. During the Final Battle, when Beast has Gaston at his mercy, Beast spares Gaston and tells him to Get Out!. Unfortunately, Gaston takes advantage of his mercy and tries to kill the Beast while his back was turned, leading Belle to only try and save the Beast, not even bothered by Gaston falling to his death.
- In Coco, while Héctor is angry at his old friend Ernesto for taking credit for his songs, he is still willing to let bygones be bygones if Ernesto helps him send Miguel back to the Land of the Living to save him from his Final Death. Upon learning that it was Ernesto who killed him in the first place with a poisoned shot glass to illegitimately obtain the songs, he furiously attacks him. What's worse, once Miguel learned about those crimes of his, Ernesto has the WILL to kill the young boy. Once the everyone from the Land of the Dead to the Land of the Living learn about Ernesto's crimes, they proceed to desecrate and condemn his memory as that of a villain to the Rivera family for generations to come, ensuring that he'll live forever Hated by All.
- Subverted in Ed, Edd n Eddy's Big Picture Show. When the Eds’ latest scam forces them to go seek shelter at Eddy’s Brother’s place, Double D tries to get Eddy and Ed to take the situation that they’re in seriously. When Ed and Eddy pretend to sink in some quicksand, Double D begins walking away, but Eddy catches up to him, and the two get into an argument where Double D says that it's Eddy’s fault that they were on the run, while Eddy called Double D out about how his complacency in Eddy’s scams was to blame. After they get into a fight that Double D wins, he declares his intention to return home, and when Ed tries to stop him because of what the kids will do to him, Double D says that he’d rather face his consequences than wander aimlessly with a so-called friend. This causes Eddy to drop his Never My Fault attitude, and admit that he was to blame for their predicament. This convinces Double D that Eddy is not irredeemable, and he immediately rejoins their journey to seek out Eddy’s Brother.
- Frozen II:
- Mentioned briefly early on in the film. Elsa calls Prince Hans an irredeemable monster during the charades game, due to his nefarious plot of taking over the throne of Arendelle by attempting to murder Elsa and Anna. Elsa would later shatter a snow memory of Hans out of spite.
- Elsa even comes a snow memory of her deceased grandfather King Runeard, who is revealed to be an Evil Colonialist who tried to subjugate the Northuldrans by building a dam to weaken their resources, all just to satisfy his hatred towards magic which the Northuldrans are connected to. Upon learning this, Elsa coldly abandons whatever respect she had for Runeard, declaring him to be despicable for letting his fear of magic overwhelm his mind. Even Anna comes up to the same mindset when Elsa sent over a message about Runeard's true nature in the form of a snow memory of Runeard murdering the Northuldran leader with a sword, similar to how Hans tried to murder Elsa.
- In How to Train Your Dragon 2, when Hiccup learns about Drago, he searches him out to try to talk to him. Hiccup’s father, Stoic, repeatedly tells him that Drago is beyond all reason, but Hiccup doesn't listen. When Hiccup does finally meet Drago, he proves Stoic's point, by having his own Alpha Dragon kill Velka's Alpha, then has him Mind Rape Toothless into attacking Hiccup, forcing Stoic into Taking the Bullet, killing him. This makes Hiccup realize that Drago truly is beyond reason, and sets out to stop him for good.
- The Hunchback of Notre Dame:
- Throughout the movie, Frollo tells Quasimodo that there are people in the world who cannot be granted salvation. After Frollo tries to wipe out the gypsies Quasimodo has become friends with, Quasimodo agrees with Frollo but tells him that he is the one who cannot be granted salvation, not the gypsies. Quasimodo was initially hesitant about this thanks to Frollo raising him but changed his mind.
Quasimodo: All my life, you've told me that the world is a dark, cruel place. But now I see that the only thing dark and cruel about it is people like you!
- Later on, the gargoyle statue that Frollo clings on to before his doom comes to life and snarls at him with a demonic grin before breaking off from Notre Dame to cast him down to a fiery sea of molten metal. It's done to show that God declared him to be the "wicked one" who must be "plunged into the fiery pit" for his sins despite being offered chance after chance to repent.
- Throughout the movie, Frollo tells Quasimodo that there are people in the world who cannot be granted salvation. After Frollo tries to wipe out the gypsies Quasimodo has become friends with, Quasimodo agrees with Frollo but tells him that he is the one who cannot be granted salvation, not the gypsies. Quasimodo was initially hesitant about this thanks to Frollo raising him but changed his mind.
- The Incredibles: Syndrome wanted to become a superhero himself since his youth. Unfortunately, it wasn't really for helping others, but rather, for showing himself off in front of others. When his ex-idol Mr. Incredible reasonably turned down his sidekick offers, that's when old Buddy Pine became pettily villainous, in which he came up with the plan of pretending to be a superhero partly out of vengeance, where it involves killing dozens of legitimate superheroes as a means of stopping them in hindering his schemes, which shocked Mr. Incredible himself. Though Mr. Incredible generally doesn't want to kill people, he makes an exception for Syndrome by throwing his fancy car at the villain, which sends Syndrome falling into a jet turbine to his death.
- Kung Fu Panda:
- In the first movie, Po is still willing to give Tai Lung a chance to redeem himself, even after seeing him nearly kill Master Shifu. It's only after Tai Lung reads the Dragon Scroll and doesn't get its meaning that Po decides that Tai Lung has to go, and uses the Wuxi Finger Hold on him.
- In the second movie, when Shen's fleet has been destroyed, Po tries to convince him to give up his evil ways. Shen responds by trying to kill Po, and Po dodges out of the way of a piece of debris, which falls on Shen, killing him, with Po showing a look of resignation on his face as he does.
- In the third film, Po never offers Kai the Conqueror a Last-Second Chance. Considering the atrocities he carried out after escaping the Spirit Realm (destroying the Jade Palace, draining the chi of every Kung Fu master in China, including Shifu and four of the Furious Five then trying to take the Chi of the Panda villagers), it makes sense. Instead, Po flat-out destroys him by overloading him with chi.
- Surprisingly, all three of them end up at the very least showing Po respect at the end of the fourth film after he restores their kung fu after it was stolen by The Chameleon, suggesting that even though they stayed evil in life, they managed to at least have a Hazy-Feel Turn in death.
- Lilo & Stitch (2002): Deconstructed. In the opening scene, when the semi-titular destructive genetic experiment is first brought to the galactic council's attention, the Grand Councilwoman, unlike Gantu, doesn't immediately write Experiment 626 off as an irredeemable monster, trying to open communication with him in the hopes he'll show some potential to be rehabilitated. But when 626 responds to her first effort by saying something very obscene in the aliens' tongue, from that point on, she considers him impossible to rehabilitate. The Grand Councilwoman then spends the majority of the movie overseeing the alien authorities' efforts to recapture 626 so they can imprison him on a desert asteroid for eternity... all while the audience is watching 626 gradually grow and change for the better under Lilo and Nani's influence on Earth.
- In The Prince of Egypt, after Egypt has been ravaged by nine plagues, Moses tries one last time to plead for his brother Rameses to let the Hebrews go. Rameses refuses and declares that he will finish what his father started, and wipe out the Hebrews. Moses can only walk away in anguish, deciding that, as horrible as what's about to come is, Rameses simply isn't going to listen to reason. Only after all of the firstborn sons of Egypt, including Rameses' own son, have been taken by the Angel of Death does he let Moses and the Hebrews leave Egypt. However, the grieving Rameses then decides that the final plague will not be stood for and leads his army after the Hebrews determined to slaughter the lot of them, fully cementing that there will be no redemption for the Pharaoh. The Hebrew God Himself, in regards to how Rameses treated His people in order to benefit his own, gives a non-verbal scathing to the man when He spares him alone as if to say, "You ignored my warnings and ignored my command. You want your kingdom so bad, it's yours."
- Puss in Boots: The Last Wish: Unlike the sympathetic Goldilocks and the Noble Demon Wolf (aka Death), "Big" Jack Horner has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and relishes in it. He's a Psychopathic Manchild who abuses magical animals, does not respect anyone but himself, has no qualms about killing his henchmen via Friendly Fire and his ultimate goal is to gain control of all of the world's magic. Even the Ethical Bug, who takes it upon himself to be Jack's conscience, gives up and calls him an "irredeemable monster", to which Jack responds with "What took you so long, idiot?" Fittingly, he's the only antagonist to die.
- Rio has a more Played for Laughs example with Nigel, who brags about being "unwashable", "unrinsible" and having zero principle in his Villain Song.
- Recess: School's Out: Dr. Phillium Benedict is this to everyone for his pathetic beliefs towards recess as he stubbornly refuses to accept responsibility for his mistakes in the past and instead blames his former friend Principal Prickly for it; even a disgusted Miss Finster pointed this out as the main reason why she rightfully dumped Benedict in the first place. Even when some of the students tried to reason with Benedict before he was told by T.J. about the major flaws and serious consequences that Benedict's plot will bring to the world, Benedict doesn't give a damn by stating that he still wants to try accomplishing it, simply just to spite all the students and teachers.
T.J.: You got it all wrong, old man, your plan will never work! Sure, maybe your crazy laser beam can move the moon, maybe it can make it snow all summer. Maybe you can get rid of long afternoons playing baseball, or sunny days down by the lake or warm nights camping out under the stars. But that won't stop us: we'll ride our bikes through the snow, we'll play kickball in the slush, we'll camp out in igloos. You may take away summer, but you'll never take away summer vacation!
Benedict: Well, I can try. (to his scientists) DO IT! NOW!! - In Toy Story 3 when Woody and his gang ended up in the dump, Woody and Buzz save Lots-o'-Huggin' Bear from being shredded, even though he had previously ruled Sunnyside Daycare with an iron fist and subjected Woody’s friends to torture at the hands of toddlers, but then Lotso leaves them all to die in the incinerator. That's when Woody realizes that Lotso truly is beyond saving. After the toys are saved by the toy aliens with "The Claw", Hamm and Slinky want to get back at Lotso for almost getting them killed, but Woody talks them out of it, telling them he's not worth the trouble. Sure enough, karma bites Lotso hard when he is found by a garbage truck driver and strapped to the grill of the truck with decaying toys.
- Wish: To Queen Amaya's dismay, once King Magnifico dabbles into forbidden magic, its grip on him is permanent. She mourns for the good he used to have, and only has contempt for the monster he has become.
Films — Live-Action
- In Aquaman (2018), when Arthur Curry defeats David Kane and his father Jesse Kane while rescuing Russian Submariners, he at first decides to just let them go. But when Jesse fires a grenade launcher at Arthur, which causes a leak and traps him under some debris, David begs Arthur to help him, but Arthur tells him to "ask the sea for mercy". Arthur later comes to regret this, as his decision to abandon Jesse leads David to become Black Manta when Orm/Ocean Master gives him Atlantean technology to even the odds against him.
- In Bloodlust: Subspecies III, Michelle pleads with her vampire sire, Radu, to let her see her sister one last time and allow her to live. She says that she will forgive him for all that he's done to her (murdering her two friends, turning her into a vampire in a way that really mirrors rape, killing her newly found lover). Radu, who had just murdered his mother (and earlier his father, and brother (the aforementioned lover), stares into the fireplace where his mother's head is still burning and muses that there isn't enough forgiveness in the universe for all that he has done.
- In Brightburn, Tori watches as her son gets superpowers and does all kinds of horrible things with them. Eventually, she decides to exploit his Kryptonite Factor and kill her own son after all of her honest attempts to show him The Power of Love don't work. Too bad for Tori that Brandon catches her before she can do it, and drops her from the upper atmosphere.
- GoldenEye: James Bond once considered the ex-MI6 operative known as "Janus" his best friend and even mourned his death in a botched mission. But when Janus reveals that he not only survived an explosion in which he was thought to have died and seeks to destroy England economically for its betrayal of the Lienz Cossacks to Soviet Russia (most of whom were executed by Stalin, not the Brits), Bond's reaction changes to one of shock and tries reasoning with him. Janus instead mocks 007 with derision over his outdated loyalties to England, his constant womanizingnote and whether he has any qualms killing people. Near the end, Bond makes it clear It's Personal and pays the treachery back by deliberately dumping Janus down to his death.
Janus: For England, James?
Bond: No. For me. - In the climax of The Good Son, Susan is holding her son and veritable Creepy Child Henry as well as her nephew Mark over a cliff, after Henry tackles Mark over it. Despite trying to reform her son, this attempt at murder-suicide by Henry is enough to convince Susan that Henry won't be helped. As a result, Susan lets go of Henry, letting him fall down the cliff to his death while she pulls Mark to safety.
- In the backstory of Halloween (1978), Dr. Samuel Loomis had tried to reach Michael Myers through psychotherapy and reform him. After more than fifteen years of attempts to reach Michael, Loomis decides that Michael simply has to be stopped, one way or another. In the eyes of the good doctor, Michael's caused way too much harm to be allowed to keep his killing spree going.
Dr. Loomis: I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up because I realized that what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply... evil.
- Harakiri: Despite Motome's death, Hanshiro had come to the Ii with the slight hope that at the very least, Saito and his men might have acknowledged they overstepped their bounds with Motome after hearing the full story and possibly offer some apology Hanshiro could take with him to the next life. When Saito shows himself to be completely unrepentant for what he did and vows he will treat all future "suicide bluffers" the same way he did Motome, Hanshiro has no reason not to lay waste to the Ii clan in a blaze of glory.
- In the climax of The Long Kiss Goodnight, Charly attempts to reason with Timothy not to hurt her daughter Caitlin by revealing to him that she is not only her daughter but also his daughter. Despite easily accepting the revelation, he still considers locking both women in a freezer. At that point, Charly realized trying to get through to Timothy that they're family is out of the question, so she threatens him that he'll die screaming when she and Caitlin got out of the freezer.
- Doc Hopper spends most of The Muppet Movie following Kermit to try and convince him to be his spokesman. Kermit refuses, leading Doc to resort to increasingly desperate methods and eventually hiring a gang of criminals to hunt down and kill him. Kermit eventually gives himself up and pleads Doc to give up his pursuit and let him follow his dream, but this only angers Doc into ordering the entire group killed. Animal’s intervention is the only thing that saves them.
- Marvel Cinematic Universe:
- Loki's friends and family initially tried to reason with him in Thor, but his tactics in trying to take over the Earth in The Avengers make him a hopeless case in their eyes. In Thor: The Dark World, Odin has him doing porridge for life (and would've had him executed if Frigga hadn't intervened); Thor, Sif, and Volstagg threaten to kill him if he betrays them as he's broken out; and Jane slaps him in the face. Ironically, after they've given up on him, Loki turns a new leaf in Thor: Ragnarok.
Thor: You should know that when we fought each other in the past, I did so with a glimmer of hope that my brother was still in there somewhere. That hope no longer exists to protect you.
- Hela, Odin's oldest child, is a different story. During Thor and Loki's childhood in the beginning of the first film, they were at least told by their father that seeking war should be a last resort. Odin probably never taught Hela this during her childhood, as she was essential in his past conquests prior to becoming a benevolent ruler. In hindsight, one of the reasons why she wants to continue her role as a bloodthirsty conqueror is because she doesn't know how to be anything else. Compared to Loki, she was a lost cause for Thor long before he knew she even existed.
- Loki's friends and family initially tried to reason with him in Thor, but his tactics in trying to take over the Earth in The Avengers make him a hopeless case in their eyes. In Thor: The Dark World, Odin has him doing porridge for life (and would've had him executed if Frigga hadn't intervened); Thor, Sif, and Volstagg threaten to kill him if he betrays them as he's broken out; and Jane slaps him in the face. Ironically, after they've given up on him, Loki turns a new leaf in Thor: Ragnarok.
- MonsterVerse: Scylla is introduced in Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) as one of the numerous daikaiju that rampage under King Ghidorah's command to violently reshape Earth's landscape with mass extinction level conditions, before submitting to Godzilla when the latter kills Ghidorah and commands the other kaiju to begin healing the world's environment instead of destroying it. In later instalments, Scylla defies Godzilla's world-benefitting rules twice for selfish reasons, and she attacks him when he tries to get her to stop: first when she endangers a huge area by trying to eat a lost nuclear warhead, then again years later when she goes on a cross-continental, violent nuclear power-eating spree to make herself strong enough to potentially challenge Godzilla and her actions start degrading Earth's environment instead of maintaining it. Godzilla responds to the former transgression by strongarming Scylla into backing down, but he responds to the latter by just killing Scylla in the opening of Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire, with the novelization explicitly noting that he's concluded Scylla will never learn.
- The NeverEnding Story (1984): When confronting Gmork, Atreyu tries to reason with the nightmarish wolf and asks why he's helping the Nothing destroy Fantasia. When Gmork makes it clear he's doing it out of a selfish desire for power and has no remorse for it, Atreyu's demeanor noticeably changes as he realizes Gmork is just too evil to reason with and has to be killed.
- Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides: Philip Swift is a Good Shepherd who believes that everyone has some good in them and can be saved by God's grace, even the likes of Blackbeard himself. Over the course of the film, Blackbeard commits several atrocities that ultimately convince Philip he was wrong and Blackbeard can't be saved.
- Saw: The original Jigsaw killer John Kramer did not believe in this trope, and so he designed his Death Traps to give his victims one last chance to redeem themselves in order to stay alive. His apprentices, however, were not so merciful, and designed their death traps to be inescapable because they believed that their victims were irredeemably awful people who deserved to die. This becomes a source of tension between Kramer and one of his apprentices, Amanda, in the third film.
- Spirited (2022): The Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future are part of an organization that haunts nasty, detestable human beings in order to convince them to turn over a new leaf. However, every once in a while the team will come across a human who is “unredeemable” - so dogmatically despicable and resistant to change, any attempt to haunt them will fail and waste resources. Clint Briggs, a man who stirs up controversy for a living, is considered unredeemable, however Present is able to convince management to give him a chance anyway. It is eventually revealed that Present is so invested in Briggs because he himself was an unredeemable - Ebenezer Scrooge himself - and he has insecurities over whether or not he is truly redeemed or not.
- Star Trek:
- In Star Trek: Nemesis, when Picard learns that Shinzon is a clone of himself, he tries to invert the "Not So Different" Remark on him to prevent Shinzon from carrying out his plan to destroy the Federation. Shinzon refuses to hear it and tries to acquire Picard’s blood to save his own life because his body is degrading. While en route to Star Fleet reinforcements, Shinzon has his ship, the Scimitar, ambush the Enterprise, and when the two ships are heavily damaged, Shinzon decides to just kill everyone on the Enterprise and then do the same to Earth with the Scimitar’s Thaleron Weapon. This causes Picard to realize that they are Not So Similar, and he personally teleports to the Scimitar to stop Shinzon.
- In Star Trek Beyond, when Kirk finds out that Krall is Captain Balthazar Edison, he tries to tell him that the Federation views him as a hero for his actions in the Xindi War. Edison, however, rejects his words, because of how he perceives that the Federation abandoned him and his crew when they crash-landed on an uncharted planet. During their final duel, as Kirk works to prevent Edison’s weapon from killing everyone on Starbase Yorktown, a piece of glass flies in front of Edison’s face showing his human face in its reflection. However, Edison ignores his former humanity and uses the glass shard to try to kill Kirk, forcing him to kick Edison into the airlock, along with his weapon, killing Edison.
- Star Wars:
- Obi-Wan witnessed Anakin's fall to the Dark Side and becoming Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith. The two met again a decade later in the Obi-Wan Kenobi series, where Vader tells Obi-Wan that Anakin Skywalker is dead and that Vader killed him. At that point, he assumes that Vader can't be redeemed. It's to the extent that in A New Hope, Obi-Wan tells Luke that Vader killed Anakin Skywalker]]. Even Vader doesn't think he can come back from all he's done. Luke disagrees, however, and come Return of the Jedi, Anakin answers to Luke's continued faith.
- In A New Hope, after Leia gives Tarkin false information on where to find the Rebel Base, he destroys Alderaan, despite telling her that he would spare it if she gave him information. In the radio drama, Leia tells him that if he had a shred of humanity left in him, then it's dead now, and he is at war with life itself.
- In The Last Jedi, Rey spends the movie learning that Kylo Ren had his Face–Heel Turn because it appeared that Luke was going to put him down. After chewing out Luke for it, Rey tries to reach out to Kylo Ren, and they even kill Snoke and his guards together. But when he makes a "We Can Rule Together" offer to her, Rey rejects it and realizes he's too far gone. They go back to being enemies. In The Rise of Skywalker, it took his mother's death and Rey using Force Heal on him to finally make him turn away from the dark side.
- In the "Donner Cut" of Superman II, Jor-El mentions that nearly all criminals were rehabilitated into peaceful denizens on Krypton except for three: Non, Ursa and Zod. Those three criminals proved to be impossible to be rehabilitated and since Krypton didn’t have a death penalty, they were imprisoned in the Phantom Zone for their heinous crimes.
- Terminator Genisys: The T-3000 created from John Connor is a tragic case who doesn't have moral agency over himself. Kyle keeps trying to appeal to the T-3000's former human identity to fight Skynet's programming, and the T-3000 tells him each time — in an almost bitter tone at one point — that it can't stop itself. By the time of the movie's final battle, Kyle has completely given up on saving the T-3000 and realizes that despite who it used to be, it's now a hostile Terminator that must be destroyed.
- Transformers: Dark of the Moon: Optimus executes both Megatron and Sentinel Prime because of this. Megatron had committed many atrocities in his bid to conquer Cybertron, including nearly destroying Earth twice, so he couldn't be permitted to live. Sentinel was Optimus' mentor figure who taught him that freedom was the right of all sentient beings, beliefs that Optimus still holds true to his spark. Sentinel betrayed those beliefs when he sided with the Decepticons and tried to enslave humanity to rebuild Cybertron.
Literature
- The Bad Guys: Mr. Snake believes himself to be this; having spent so much of his life being seen and behaving as an unsympathetic monster, he has a hard time believing Mr. Wolf when he insists Snake can be a hero. Even with Wolf's Positive Friend Influence, Snake has a hard time accepting his own reformation, and this is what allows the Overlord to corrupt him, turning him into one of his servants.
- The Emperor's Gift: The Space Wolves believe the Inquisitor Kysnaros and his forces went beyond the pale when they invited the Space Wolves to a parley to negotiate a ceasefire, then opened fire on the Space Wolf vessels when they arrived, destroying four with all hands and crippling Grimnar's flagship. Before this incident, the Space Wolves had refrained from trading fire with Inquisitorial ships while protecting Armageddon refugee ships, not wanting to give the Inquisition an excuse to brand them traitors. Afterwards, the Wolves no longer hold fire or show mercy when confronting Inquisition and Grey Knight forces.
- Discussed in Book 3 of The Expanse. The book poses the question of redemption throughout and in particular the question of if a line can be drawn to define when someone is beyond redemption and if so, where to draw that line. Multiple characters have different stances on the matter, ranging from "every human life has value, no matter how tainted or corrupted" to "it is entirely possible for someone to go so far into the red that they can never balance the books". Melba Koh/Clarissa Mao in particular seems to constantly zig-zag where she draws that line with respect to herself and others, depending on her mental state and self-awareness.
- Harry Potter: The sixth book reveals that Voldemort broke his soul into pieces and hid the fragments in various Soul Jars in an attempt to achieve immortality; the only way to repair a soul once it has been ripped apart in such a way is for the person to feel genuine remorse for their actions. In book seven, Harry finds out that once Voldemort dies, the last remaining piece of his soul will be left a shriveled husk, stuck in the limbo between life and death and unable to pass on into the afterlife, so in their final battle, Harry offers Voldemort one last chance to save himself. However, Voldemort seems unable to even comprehend the concept of remorse, and Harry gives up after a moment.
"But before you try to kill me, I'd advise you to think about what you've done... Think, and try for some remorse, Riddle..."
"What is this?"
Of all the things that Harry had said to him, beyond any revelation or taunt, nothing had shocked Voldemort like this. Harry saw his pupils contract to thin slits, saw the skin around his eyes whiten.
"It's your one last chance," said Harry, "and it's all you've got left... I've seen what you'll be otherwise... Be a man... try... Try for some remorse..." - Into The Broken Lands: Lord Ryan decides he needs to execute his cousin Lyelee, not specifically because they murdered their own friend in cold blood for knowing too much, but because they didn't care at all about committing the murder.
- Johannes Cabal the Necromancer: The Villain Protagonist's brother Horst helps him collect 100 souls for his Deal with the Devil on the condition that the targets are probably already damned on their own merits. When Johannes entraps an innocent woman in a cruel Leonine Contract, Horst decides there's no hope for Johannes, sabotages the deal to lead to his death, and commits Suicide by Sunlight. Ironically, Johannes starts to change for the better immediately afterwards.
- Pale Lights: Despite Izel's ex-fiance Yaotl trying to destroy his new life in the Watch in order to restore her own position back home, Izel believes that Yaotl's flaws are not her own due to her twisted upbringing in Izcalli, and spends weeks trying to soften her stances and get her to forgive his teammate Tristan, who responded violently to her initial declaration of hostility, without breaking her pride. However, after she denies Tristan's tricky-but-valid victory in a monster-killing contest even though Tristan had put his own fingers up as a wager, then rejected his offer of a second wager, then rejected Izel's offer to suffer in Tristan's place, Izel is forced to admit that she's too stubborn to ever bury any hatchet. He brutally tells her that she will never get what she wants, because he's now willing to fight her to the death and either way she loses, then sets out to drive her out of Scholomance.
Yaotl: Are you mad?
Izel: Furious. That it had to come to this, that I had to use violence. That I couldn’t find a better way, that it's the only thing you respect enough to listen to. But here we are. - Discussed in Red Dragon. While profiling Francis Dolarhyde AKA The Tooth Fairy, Will Graham learns he became how he was through years of brutal, systematic abuse from his family. Graham feels some sympathy for him after reading his journal, but doesn't forget that Dolarhyde is responsible for the brutal rapes and murders of several families.
"As a child, my heart goes out to him. As an adult, he's irredeemable."
- The Rising of the Shield Hero: When it comes to Malty Melromarc's increasingly deplorable acts of cruelty, compulsive lying, and Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, it wasn't matter of if, but when she would be considered irredeemably evil to everyone. After her crimes are exposed and she's revealed to have falsely accused Naofumi of attempted rape, she is given the humiliating punishment of having her name legally changed to "Bitch" and has her status as royalty stripped from her as a warning from her mother to get her act together, but she still continues to act out of petty spite towards the people she deems to have wronged her. It's gotten to the point where her own family, including her once doting father, consider her a lost cause especially when she makes it clear, time and again, that she's incapable of learning a lesson, feeling remorse, or even giving a basic apology when being forced to face responsibility for her crimes.
- Shadow of the Conqueror:
- The Daybreak Massacre is seen as Dayless the Conqueror proving himself irredeemable by most of the world. The city had rebelled against the Dawn Empire, disrupting the supply chain and causing a serious defeat. Dayless responded by flying to the city with his annihilators and reducing it to a smoking ruin, killing over a million innocent people in one stroke. This was the action that prompted the Archknights to finally set aside their political neutrality and enter the fray against the Dawn Empire.
- This trope is one of the main focuses of the novel; after the fall of his Empire (the establishment of which he considered at the time to be an act of good), Dayless spent many decades in hiding as a harmless civilian and came to regret his actions, and during the book performs a great many heroic actions (albeit frequently in a ruthless and bloodthirsty manner). It is left as an open question for both characters and readers as to whether the new Dayless should be considered a completely different person from the old one, or still an impulsive and violent fighter who has gained a different perspective on morality, or whether he should still be punished for his crimes and what form that punishment should take. The solution they settle on putting him in service to the Archknights under strict supervision is taken as much out of pragmatism as out of anyone honestly believing there is a truly "right" answer.
- In the short story The Spider's Thread by Ryuunosuke Akutagawa, the criminal Kandata is in hell for his many crimes and sins. The only good thing he did was spare the life of a spider once, and he is granted a way out of hell by a thin spider's thread. He climbs it, hoping to make his way to heaven, but he notices that the other sinners are climbing up too. Fearing the thread will break, Kandata shouts that the thread is his and his alone and kicks the others away...upon which the thread immediately snaps and Kandata is cast back to hell along with the other sinners. The Buddha laments that Kandata turned out to be this, though he knows that some people truly can't be redeemed and shrugs it off.
Live-Action TV
- Adolescence: At the end of their interview, Briony tells Jamie that the only thing he can do now is take advantage of any mental health services offered to him, more or less telling him that she doesn't think there's anything in him that can be salvaged.
- Boston Public: After one of her students makes a racist remark, Woods decides to arrange an after-school session with him to help overcome his mindset, rather than to suspend him immediately. Principal Harper warns her that people like him rarely change but then decides that he will be suspended if he does not cooperate. Needless to say, he doesn't, even as she pleads how hard it must be to carry such hatred around, and even cites some of the other teachers as "niggers and Jews" that the school is run by. She gets the hint, and the rest is history.
- Buffyverse:
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer: In Season 2, when Angel loses his soul and becomes Angelus, Buffy and the Scoobies are initially focused on finding a way to restore said soul. Then comes "Passion", when Angelus kills Jenny Calendar; Xander cites this as evidence that Angelus is a monster who needs to be staked, and Buffy agrees, remarking that she's finally ready to slay him after the fact.
Buffy: I can't hold onto the past anymore. Angel is gone. Nothing's ever gonna bring him back.
- In Buffy Season 3, Faith begins to go rogue after accidentally killing the Deputy Mayor. Willow of all people asks the other Scoobies why they should help Faith. Since Faith had taken a human life and tried to pin it on Buffy and had also tried to strangle Xander to death, Willow believes that the smartest thing to do would be to turn Faith over to the police or the Watchers' Council and be done with it. In "Choices", when Faith and Willow confront one another, Faith expects Willow to give her a speech that it wasn't too late to turn back, only to be caught off-guard when Willow gives Faith a "The Reason You Suck" Speech and declares it is too late. Buffy herself eventually comes to agree with Willow after Faith swaps bodies with her and uses it to her advantage to have sex with Riley; when they confront one another in L.A., Buffy is determined to have Faith either killed or locked up, not caring that Faith is remorseful of her crimes and firmly believing that she can't be saved and Angel is wasting his time trying to help her.
Faith: Angel told me there was no way you were gonna give me a chance.
Buffy: I gave you every chance! I tried so hard to help you, and you spat on me! - Angel: As of Season 5, Angel and his crew believe this of Lindsey McDonald, considering his ambitions and constant trips through the Heel–Face Revolving Door. It's to the extent that in "Not Fade Away", when they team up against the Circle of the Black Thorn, Lorne shoots him dead on Angel's orders; having previously heard Lindsey sing and read his future, Lorne states outright that Lindsey isn't part of "the solution" and never will be.
Lindsey: There's always time for redemption. Isn't that your whole bit?
Angel: You had your chance. I guess some people, they just never change.
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer: In Season 2, when Angel loses his soul and becomes Angelus, Buffy and the Scoobies are initially focused on finding a way to restore said soul. Then comes "Passion", when Angelus kills Jenny Calendar; Xander cites this as evidence that Angelus is a monster who needs to be staked, and Buffy agrees, remarking that she's finally ready to slay him after the fact.
- The Flash (2014):
- A driving question throughout the first five seasons is whether or not Eobard Thawne, the Reverse-Flash, is really capable of turning over a new leaf and caring about others. Season Five concludes that while he can build emotional bonds with others, it'll never be enough to get him to change; as shown when he readily plans to sacrifice his pupil Nora West-Allen/XS to save himself from being executed for his crimes. It's at this point that XS and her mother Iris finally give up on him along with the rest of Team Flash.
- In Season 5, there is also the case of Grace Gibbons, the second Cicada. A victim of a deadly metahuman attack, Grace grew up hating superpowered individuals, and the shrapnel in her head certainly wasn't helping her mental state. She goes back to the past in order to wipe out metahumans altogether, and despite several reasons to get to her, team Flash realizes she has to be given up in order for her past self to be saved. Thanks to the mental assistance of Nora, future Grace is held back long enough for Barry to blast her dagger back into the future, causing Cicada to evaporate and die.
- Clifford DeVoe becomes increasingly violent and coldblooded over the course of Season 4, but his wife Marlize still banks her final plan to save the world on Barry going into his mind and appealing to his good side. When he reports that DeVoe has no good side to appeal to, she finally realizes that he has to be stopped by any means and ends up literally pulling the plug on him herself.
- Kamen Rider Gaim: Takatora comes to accept this about Ryoma over the course of Movie War Full Throttle, where the two get one last confrontation well after Ryoma backstabbed Takatora. Despite having once viewed Ryoma as his closest confidante, Takatora gradually comes to accept over the course of their battle that Ryoma was always a megalomaniac more interested in achieving godhood than actually saving lives, and at the end solemnly bids farewell to him.
- The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power: In the Season One finale, Sauron, claims to seek redemption and seems to think that by ruling Middle-earth alongside Galadriel, he can achieve this. He envisions a future where their combined strength could restore the world. However, Galadriel sees through his facade, tells him that no amount of penance can absolve him of his past evil deeds and understands that he would make her a tyrant. He responds to her rejection with rage and proceeds to blame her for his subsequent campaign of gaslighting, torture, and murder, which indicates he never knew how to obtain redemption in the first place.
- Power Rangers:
- Dr. Viktor Adler from Power Rangers Wild Force. Formerly a friend to Cole's birth parents, Adler fell in love with Cole's mother, but got the wrong idea she loved him. Adler also learned Cole's father had proposed to her on the day Adler was planning to do the same thing, without her knowing. Becoming increasingly hateful to them for thinking Cole's father stole his life's work and a chance at a family, Adler swallowed the seeds of the original Master Org and sought their deaths, then decided to destroy nature and humanity out of spite. When Cole chooses to forgive Adler in hopes of changing his ways, Adler rejects them wholeheartedly. Princess Shayla later tries the same thing, but Adler's soul has long since corrupted even before the original Master Org started using his body, making it clear his I've Come Too Far moment isn't out of regret, but a reminder he doesn't want to redeem himself. Thus, Cole and Shayla, both valuing life, realize Adler has no good in him and must be destroyed.
- Lothor, formerly known as Kiya Watanabe, from Power Rangers Ninja Storm is banished from the Ninja Academy for trying to use dark magic to unlock the green amulet. Years later in the first episode, he returns from outer space (where he was sent after his banishment) to get revenge on his twin brother, Kanoi for his part in the banishment. Kanoi (now Sensei Watanabe) tries to reason with him in his plans, but Lothor refuses to hear his pleas even going so far as turning him into a guinea pig during their fight. Since then, Kanoi is convinced that Lothor is not worth redeeming going so far as to disown their family relationship whenever it's being talked about.
- Subverted with Ransik in Power Rangers Time Force. In the final battle, he was actually winning, but when he discovered that he attacked Nadira, his own child, he was horrified. Using a baby she rescued, a little boy, as an example, Nadira got Ransik to realize that what he had become that he felt guilt for his crimes and surrendered. In Wild Force's "Reinforcements from the future", Ransik and Nadira travel back to the year 2002 with Lucas, Katie, and Trip to help all 12 rangers defeat the Mut-Orgs, who Ransik created and feels great remorse for doing so. In a near-suicidal attack, Ransik destroys the Mut-Orgs' mutant halves, allowing the Rangers to destroy them. Ransik's near suicidal attack almost killed him, but it also healed him of his mutation, making him fully human and fully redeeming himself. In Power Rangers Hyper Force, Ransik started a Mutant Rehabilitation Program to further atone for his past and to help make mutants into functioning citizens in society.
- ''Star Trek: The Next Generation: Data in the season 3 episode "The Most Toys" comes to realize that Kivas Fajo will not stop his greedy and murderous ways, and concludes that he has no choice but to kill him.
- In Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Benjamin Sisko believed that the universe was all different shades of gray, and assumed that Gul Dukat was not as evil as the Bajorans said that he was. However, in the season 6 episode "Waltz", Sisko and Dukat get trapped on a desolated planet while en route to Dukat’s trial, and when Dukat goes completely insane from the hallucinations that he had been seeing throughout the episode, it causes Sisko to realize that there really are people like Dukat who are completely evil. After that, Sisko vows to eliminate Dukat the next time he sees him.
- Supernatural, "Appointment in Samarra": Sam Winchester tries to Invoke this in order to remain The Soulless. There's a Black Magic rite that would corrupt himself so profoundly that his soul can't be restored; all it takes is the deliberate sacrifice of his father. Dean intervenes Just in Time.
Balthazar: You need to scar your vessel... Meaning something that so pollutes it, it renders it uninhabitable.
- Uchu Sentai Kyuranger: Tsurugi is forced to accept this about Quervo in the end. [[spoiler:He viewed Quervo as his closest friend, even after learning he had become a Willing Channeler for Don Armage. It's only after Quervo is no longer Don Armage's host, and still tries to attack Tsurugi even after he tries to offer sympathy, that Tsurugi is forced to accept his friend is too far gone.
- The finale of Ultraman Geed ends with a battle between Father and Son, Ultraman Belial and Ultraman Geed. During which, Geed peers into Belial's past and realizes just how insane his thirst for power has corrupted him: Having Frozen over the Land of Light and stealing its Sun to power himself and his army, invaded another universe and blown up countless worlds to harvest extremely powerful emeralds to destroy the Land of Light and conquer all universes, possessed Ultraman Zero himself and murdered his friends out of spite and to control Zero's own body as his own, blown up Riku's universe (which had to be rebuilt by Ultraman King sacrificing his body in order to rebuild it, and even creating Riku only so that he could harness King's power so Belial could use it as his own without any regard for Riku/Geed's own life. Even after all this, Geed still attempts to reach out to his father to try and persuade him to let go of his quest for vengeance and power, and surprisingly comes closer than anyone has (not for a lack of trying) when Belial briefly regains his original form prior to being possessed by Alien Reiblood (something that has never been attempted in the 8 years Belial has been a part of the franchise). However, his efforts are fruitless, and Belial brushes him off, forcing Geed to go through with the task of killing him to save his universe.
- Alien Nowar in Ultraman Cosmos gets a nonverbal example. After several Kick the Dog moments make it clear that the whole species has a complete Lack of Empathy, Cosmos, who has dedicated his existence to preserving life whenever possible, slices the ship in half in a Tranquil Fury, completely exterminating the race.
Religion
- The Book of Mormon: Mormon realises that there's no more hope for the Nephites, when they have descended into misery and mourning and lamentations and yet still do not turn back to God. Technically they are granted one more chance to repent after that, but they ignore it, at which point God speaks to Mormon, confirming that they are past all their chances and will be removed from the face of the earth.
And they did not come unto Jesus with broken hearts and contrite spirits, but they did curse God, and wish to die. Nevertheless they would struggle with the sword for their lives. And it came to pass that my sorrow did return unto me again, and I saw that the day of grace was passed with them, both temporally and spiritually; for I saw thousands of them hewn down in open rebellion against their God, and heaped up as dung upon the face of the land.
- Some Christian churches believe that there are some sins that are so severe that God will not accept them into Heaven even if a Christian has repented. Other churches defy this by saying that God a Christian's sins, regardless of the severity, are forgiven if he repents; refusing to repent is what leads to damnation. The Puritans in particular believed that if one were to sin just once, then not only was the person doomed to eternal damnation, but it would also spell doom for the entire community. Relatedly, demons (as Fallen Angels) are said to be beyond redemption, because an angel does everything in full knowledge of all consequences of its actions, so an angel that Falls will never change its mind and repent, and thus can't be forgiven.
Tabletop Games
- Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition: The Oath of Redemption is one of The Paladin's subclasses. Redemption Paladins have a spell list and an oath which center around turning evil people into good people. However, one of the four tenets of the oath is the Tenet of Wisdom, where the Paladin has to acknowledge that there eventually comes a point where someone can't seek forgiveness for their evil actions anymore, and to make the careful and grim final judgement that there is no hope of redeeming the subject in question. At that point, even though the Oath of Redemption Paladin tends to treat violence as a last resort, they need to follow through with ending that evildoer's life for the safety of the world.
- Any Abyssal Exalted becomes this if they take the Charm Immortal Malevolence Enslavement, as this binds their soul too tightly to the Neverborn, as well as causing them to fall into Oblivion if they ever meet their final death.
- In Nomine: Implied. While Archangels can become fallen angels, it's unknown if Demon Princes can ascend to Heaven, since no Demon Prince has even got close — Princes who've become severely Dissonant have been of the "still evil, but now batshit insane" flavor. It's also not clear how an Archangel could patron a being of such power, even if you could find one willing to risk it. It might be the case that a group of Archangels or the Seraphim Council could do the job, but it's equally possible that the Princes have made their bed barring direct divine intervention. In short, while it's theoretically possible to redeem a Demon Prince, the chances of anyone trying it (much less succeeding) are alarmingly low, so the Archangels have basically washed their hands of trying.
- Warhammer 40,000: At the end of the Horus Heresy, the Emperor of Man did battle with his favored son Horus. Despite the atrocities that he committed, the Emperor held back because he couldn’t fully bring himself to kill Horus. When Horus had critically injured the Emperor, forcing him to pull back, a lone Imperial Guardsman, Ollanius Pius, stood between Horus and the Emperor. After witnessing Horus ruthlessly kill Ollanius, the Emperor realized how far gone his son was, and so he used what was left of his strength to kill Horus.
Video Games
- Ace Combat:
- Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere:
- In the UPEO-Neucom route, when Cynthia learns about the Ouroboros organization and their ideals of Brain Uploading, she defects to them because she hopes to use it For Science!. Fiona, Cynthia’s younger sister, tried to convince her not to go because Ouroboros was a terrorist organization. When Cynthia ignores her sister and joins Ouroboros, the next time they meet, Fiona is all too eager to dogfight against her sister.
- If Nemo defects with Cynthia to Ouroboros, she learns that Abyssal Dision, the leader of Ouroboros, and a Brain Upload himself, hates what he has become, is only out for revenge. Cynthia tries to convince Dision of the possibilities for human evolution through Brain Uploading, but Dision refuses to hear her out, causing Cynthia to realize too late that she should have listened to her sister, and defects from Ouroboros with Nemo to stop Dision.
- Ace Combat 7: Skies Unknown: In the SP Mission ‘Ten Million Relief Plan’, when Matias Torres gets backed into a corner he fakes a surrender so that he could line up a shot towards the Osean capital of Oured to try to end the war. However, David North, the intelligence analyst who had been assisting the LRSSG hunt down Torres, sees through his ruse and tries and fails to stop Torres from going through with his plan, forcing Trigger to disobey orders, and fire on the Alicorn right before it can shoot, throwing off its trajectory. After that, the LRSSG decide that they’re done trying to negotiate with Torres, and sink him along with the Alicorn to the bottom of the ocean.
- Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere:
- Baldur's Gate: Jon Irenicus's speech to Ellesime at the Tree of Life showed the latter that the former was a man who, up until that point, had been unrepentant and sadistic. Ellesime tries to reason with Irenicus about the love they used to share, but Irencius is so consumed by hatred that he won't back down from his Evil Plan to shed his mortal form and become a god, through any means necessary. Ellesime sadly concludes that there's nothing left of Jon to save, and that she has to stop him.
Irenicus: I... I do not remember your love, Ellesime. I have tried to. I have tried to recreate it, to spark it anew in my memory. But it is gone... a hollow, dead thing. For years, I clung to the memory of it. Then the memory of the memory. And then nothing. The Seldarine took that from me, too. I look upon you and I feel nothing. I remember nothing but you turning your back on me, along with all the others. Once my thirst for power was everything. And now I hunger only for revenge. And I will have it!
Ellesime: Then I pity you. Would that you had used your stolen mortal years to earn your return to this sacred place... I could have you anew as I loved the man you once were. But I see nothing of him here. You are Irenicus. And all that awaits you now... is death. - Halfway through Child of Light, Aurora finds out that her own stepsister Norah is actually Nox, one of the Queen of the Night's daughters, who coldly betrays Aurora and leaves her to die in the Forgotten Tower. Upon discovering Nox's treason, Aurora tries to reason with The Sociopath, only to be met with an unhinged smile and absolutely no remorse. Following this and the imprisonment of her friends in the Forgotten Tower with the intention of leaving them to die, Aurora grimly disowns Nox as her sister. The next and last time Aurora and Nox encounter each other, the two are purely enemies and fight to the death, with Aurora not even bothering to get through to her.
- Destiny: In the backstory, a Guardian whose name had been lost to historynote had been corrupted by the forces of darkness and went by the name of Dredgen Yor. His Ghost had tried to get him to come back by calling him his original name, but when he threatened to kill her for calling him by that name, it made her realize that the Guardian she once knew was gone.
- In Dayshift at Freddy’s 2, the Puppet says they can forgive the protagonist if he joined Dave in killing the children in the first game, but Dave himself and his partner Henry are beyond salvation.
- Dyztopia: Post-Human RPG: When Barbados throws away Akira's mercy and destroys Pon Pon Village, the latter decides they can no longer spare the former and kills him. They state that Barbados had the potential to be a good person, but they also recognize that the person he has become will never live up to that potential. Although Kael holds a grudge against Akira for doing so, he also admits that he has conflicting feelings because even he believes his brother committed an unforgivable atrocity.
- Evil Genius 2: Defied by the Blue Saint, the S.M.A.S.H. Super Agent. Unlike the other Super Agents who see the titular Evil Genius as an irredeemable menace that must be eliminated on sight, Blue Saint is convinced that the Genius can be reformed into a hero if he tries hard enough by sabotaging their operations. In the side-story missions, the Genius is so annoyed by the Blue Saint that they try to break Blue Saint's faith in redemption by increasing operations in S.M.A.S.H. territories, humiliating Blue Saint's colleagues by stealing their masks, and firing their Doomsday Device upon Blue Saint's home. But the Blue Saint still keeps his faith, even when he's finally captured and then executed by the Genius. He blames himself for not trying harder to save the Genius rather than accepting the reality that the Genius never wants to be redeemed.
- Final Fantasy XIV:
- The Final Boss of the Pandaemonium raid series of Endwalker ends up being painted in this light as time goes on. Towards the end of the raid series, the heroes declare that they're done trying to save the Big Bad, as it's revealed through their battles in Pandaemonium that the Big Bad's Godhood Seeker experiments might cause The End of the World as We Know It, or at least put a tyrant in charge of the world. And upon the villain rejecting the chance to turn back, the heroes decide that their words would be wasted if they kept trying. Erichthonios wonders if Athena could have been a truly loving mother to him and wife to Lahabrea if she'd never discovered the Heart of Sabik. But as the raid series goes on, it becomes increasingly clear that she was always a monster manipulating people for her own ends, and that the Heart of Sabik simply stripped away any inhibitions she had left. Themis declares that he will cast judgment on her as Elidibus the Emissary, and Athena treated with complete contempt from the penultimate fight of the raid onward.
- In Dawntrail, we have Zoraal Ja, a Mamool Ja who is competing to become the next Dawnservant. As the contest goes on, he starts becoming more and more frustrated as his strength and his popularity start to fail him, leading to him being disqualified from the contest after attacking one of the judges. Wuk Lamat, Zoraal Ja's adopted sister, can easily forgive him for those because he's stressed by everything put on him. But after Wuk Lamat wins the throne instead, Zoraal Ja returns from entering Alexandria with a massive army to their hometown of Tuliyollal. Zoraal Ja attacks the city, kills their father Gulool Ja Ja, kills at least fifty innocent townspeople and wounds countless more, steals their souls for use in said army, then threatens to wipe Tuliyollal off the map unless Wuk Lamat defeats him in combat. Wuk Lamat decides that such villainy cannot be forgiven, and seeks to kill Zoraal Ja for what he's done. Wuk Lamat and her other brother Koana do lament after putting Zoraal Ja down that if they knew of his problems beforehand, they might have been able to help him without bloodshed. But as things stood, Zoraal Ja was too far gone to be reasoned with, and he had to be put down lest he cause any more pain.
- In the final mission of the Crimson Flower route in Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Edelgard tries to get Rhea to surrender when she retreats to Fhirdiad with the remaining Knights of Seiros and Kingdom of Faerghus soldiers. But when Rhea orders her forces to set fire to the city, Edelgard calls for the Black Eagle Strike Force to assault the city and finish off Rhea, as she has gone completely insane at this point.
- By the time Freddy Fazbear's Pizzeria Simulator begins, Cassette Man has come to firmly believe that his old business partner, the inventor William Afton and the murderer of the children, has to be stopped by any means necessary. After making sure he and the remaining animatronics are trapped in a burning building with no way out, Cassette Man firmly says that the only place William is going to is Hell.
Cassette Man: The darkest pit of Hell has opened to swallow you whole, so don't keep the Devil waiting, old friend.
- God of War:
- God of War (PS4): Kratos is convinced this applies to himself for most of the game, after all the chaos and atrocities he committed in the original series against the Greek pantheon and the mortals of Greece. At one point, he's confronted by the spirit of Athena, who tells him point-blank that no matter how much he tries to be a better person, he can't change and will always be a monster, to which Kratos concurs. However, while Kratos is convinced he can't be redeemed, he still makes an effort to ensure Atreus doesn't walk down the same path as he did, and by the end of the game, he seems to have realized that he can at least keep trying. During the Final Boss fight, Kratos offers a chance for the antagonist to walk away. It's rejected. Kratos opts to spare Baldur's life, warning him to not lay a hand on him, his son, or his mother Freya. Kratos even warns Baldur, repeatedly, that Vengeance Feels Empty and that he should just walk away. Immediately afterwards, Baldur turns on Freya, refusing to forgive her for placing the curse on him that robbed him of his senses and attempting to choke her to death. Realizing he's too far gone to be reasoned with, Kratos steps in and snaps Baldur's neck.
Kratos: The cycle ends here. We must be better than this.
- God of War Ragnarök: The Arc Words of the game are "be better"; the Central Theme is breaking your own patterns of destructive behaviour and choosing to be a better person than you were. As such, the heroes decide that they're not beyond redemption, whereas the villains have decided that they've come too far to turn back, and actively reject the idea of being better.
- Kratos exemplifies this in the end. This trope is firmly defied when he sees a mural of his prophesized future depicting him as a god that is beloved and worshiped rather than hated or feared. The sight of it renders him speechless and he very nearly weeps.
Mimir: What did you see in there, brother?
Kratos: A path. One I had... never imagined. - Played straight with the final boss. While Freya forgives Kratos for Baldur's death in the previous game and Thor decides to turn over a new leaf before Odin kills him, Odin firmly rejects any attempt to be better after Atreus pleads with him that he can choose to be better - resulting in Atreus putting him down for good.
Atreus: You have to stop. You can choose to be better.
The Final Boss: No... I can't. I have to know what happens next. I will never stop.
Atreus: Why'd you have to say that?
- Kratos exemplifies this in the end. This trope is firmly defied when he sees a mural of his prophesized future depicting him as a god that is beloved and worshiped rather than hated or feared. The sight of it renders him speechless and he very nearly weeps.
- God of War (PS4): Kratos is convinced this applies to himself for most of the game, after all the chaos and atrocities he committed in the original series against the Greek pantheon and the mortals of Greece. At one point, he's confronted by the spirit of Athena, who tells him point-blank that no matter how much he tries to be a better person, he can't change and will always be a monster, to which Kratos concurs. However, while Kratos is convinced he can't be redeemed, he still makes an effort to ensure Atreus doesn't walk down the same path as he did, and by the end of the game, he seems to have realized that he can at least keep trying. During the Final Boss fight, Kratos offers a chance for the antagonist to walk away. It's rejected. Kratos opts to spare Baldur's life, warning him to not lay a hand on him, his son, or his mother Freya. Kratos even warns Baldur, repeatedly, that Vengeance Feels Empty and that he should just walk away. Immediately afterwards, Baldur turns on Freya, refusing to forgive her for placing the curse on him that robbed him of his senses and attempting to choke her to death. Realizing he's too far gone to be reasoned with, Kratos steps in and snaps Baldur's neck.
- Played with in Halo 2. Thel'Vadam is put on trial for his failure to protect Halo, and the Covenant Council declares him a heretic, with the Prophet of Truth telling him that he will be left behind for his heresy when the "Great Journey" begins. After being branded with the Mark of Shame, and brought before the prophets in the Mausoleum of the Arbiter, the Prophet of Truth tells Thel'Vadam that the prophets don’t see him as a heretic, as he rightfully bore the blame for Halo’s destruction, and name him the Arbiter so that he can repent for his failure. However, near the end of the game, Tartarus reveals to Thel'Vadam that the prophets only saw him as a means to an end, and they order Tartarus to kill him as they no longer had any use for him. In a twist of irony, come Halo 3, Thel'Vadam declares the Prophet of Truth to be beyond redemption, personally killing him before he can activate the Halo Array.
- In Stars and Time: The Hard Truth Aesop in the game is that Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse, which is shown with the King at one point in the story. He's an Anti-Villain because he just wants to remember his country, which was deleted from everyone's memory. However, he still froze everyone in time in the castle, which the party calls him out on during the first defeat. After that, at the end of Act 3, the King kills Tagalong Kid Bonnie by crushing them to death in his hand, complete with a Sickening "Crunch!". At that point, Siffrin decides — even with Time Loop Fatigue, Sanity Slippage, and Chronic Self-Deprecation plaguing him down — that the King is beyond all reason and can't be talked out of his madness. So Siffrin has to find a way to permanently get rid of the King instead.
- Kingdom Hearts:
- In Dream Drop Distance, when Esmerelda tells Riku about Frollo and his prejudice against gypsies, Riku asks her if Frollo was always like this, implying that Riku wants to speak with Frollo so he can try to win him over to the light. However, after seeing Frollo attempt to burn down someone's house because he suspected they were holding gypsies, Riku declares that Frollo is beyond saving and will ultimately have to be subdued with force.
Riku: He won't listen. Once you've fallen that far, there's almost no turning back.
- In III, no character aside from Eraqus sees in Xehanort anything salvageable or good, particularly Sora and Kairi as evidenced in both Re𝄌Mind and Melody of Memory. It's likely that Xehanort even saw himself as this in the end, adding an extra layer to him telling Eraqus "It is too late!" when asked to do the right thing by handing over the χ-blade.
- In Dream Drop Distance, when Esmerelda tells Riku about Frollo and his prejudice against gypsies, Riku asks her if Frollo was always like this, implying that Riku wants to speak with Frollo so he can try to win him over to the light. However, after seeing Frollo attempt to burn down someone's house because he suspected they were holding gypsies, Riku declares that Frollo is beyond saving and will ultimately have to be subdued with force.
- In Mafia III, if Lincoln chooses to listen to his CIA mentor's advice, it doesn't end well for him. Lincoln killing off his surviving lieutenants before taking power as the new crime lord of the city means that the next time he enters a car, Lincoln will get blown up by a car bomb. The modern-day interviews that form the Framing Device reveal that Father James was responsible, having deemed Lincoln too far gone to save anymore.
- Metaphor: ReFantazio:
- When Eupha learns that the party is planning on killing Louis, she understands that they have their reasons, but is uncomfortable about killing someone. That lasts until the first time she meets Louis, in which he casually mentions that he would have razed her home village had the party not obtained the Drakodios, a relic of her people. At that point, not only does Eupha fully commit herself to killing Louis, but Louis' subordinates, the Magnus brothers, are forced to realize that he no longer is the kind of person they should support.
- Hulkenberg's Follower Bond has her meeting Rhodanthe, a former comrade-in-arms whom she regarded as a Worthy Opponent, only for Rhodanthe to belittle her and later have a man hanged just for slandering the royal guards. Hulkenberg is distressed to see Rhodanthe like this, but resolves to challenge him to a duel, not just to stop him but also to see if he has any knightly honor left. The fact that he not only sentences eight innocent paripus to death just before the duel, but cheats in the duel (and loses anyway) proves that he's no longer the knight Hulkenberg once remembered.
- Mortal Kombat 11: The Aftermath DLC shows Sindel joining forces with Shao Kahn into launching an assault against the heroes in Kronika's keep under Shang Tsung's orders. Kitana believes that her mother has fallen into Shao Kahn's brainwashing as an explanation for her actions. However, Sindel reveals that she committed the actions of her own free will, not from being brainwashed by Shao Kahn. Also, she is truly responsible for the murder of her first husband and Kitana's father, Jerrod for being perceived as a weak ruler. With this, she found true love with Shao Kahn. From this revelation, Kitana angrily lamented to Sindel that she should have stayed dead.
- Octopath Traveler:
- Wide-Eyed Idealist Alfyn saves the life of a man named Miguel by healing an infected wound. Through his travels, Alfyn learns that Miguel is a noted thief and murderer. Alfyn is warned about this by Ogen, another apothecary, saying "some lives aren't worth saving". Alfyn insists on healing Miguel anyway, especially once Miguel swears that he'll give up the criminal life. Later, Miguel goes back on his word. He kidnaps a young child, flees into the forest, and reveals that he'd been lying the whole time about turning over a new leaf. Enraged, Alfyn defeats Miguel in a fight (re-opening Miguel's wound in the process), rescues Miguel's hostage, and leaves Miguel to die in the forest.
- Speaking of Ogen (see the quote at the top), he holds this attitude towards not only Miguel (about whom he turns out to be right), but himself as well. This is due to Ogen murdering the man who killed Ogen's wife after receiving life-saving medical treatment from him, which caused him to become a cynic and intentionally not treat his own sicknesses. Late in Alfyn's story arc, Alfyn has to save Ogen from dying of the disease while giving Ogen a "No More Holding Back" Speech.
- In Octopath Traveler: Champions of the Continent, Bargello's crew (especially Pierro) are reluctant to fight Oskha due to being their old friend Tiziano, who they thought had died. By the end of the Bestower of Wealth arc, however, everyone firmly believes he needs to go down, thanks to Oskha stabbing Bargello and putting him in a coma, intentionally destroying several towns just to "prove" his point about wealth being evil, and generally making it clear that he didn't care about them all along.
- In Octopath Traveler II, Castti the apothecary is extraordinarily compassionate, like Alfyn before her, but the main antagonist of her route is one person she doesn't consider worth saving. His name is Trousseau, and he is a former member of her group of apothecaries until he went insane and decided that death is the only way to save people from suffering, causing him to start a poison rain that killed everyone in the village they were staying besides him and Castti, leaving her amnesiac. When Castti confronts Trousseau as he's trying to do this to a larger town that is holding a coronation, she proceeds to kill him.
- In Oxenfree, the entire cast will consider you to be this if you are willing to give Clarissa's soul to the Sunken, even if you ultimately save her later.
- In Persona 5, the Phantom Thieves steal the hearts of corrupt adults who are actively causing harm to others and are too far gone to be reasoned with. When redemption is actively refused, the Thieves force the issue with Heel–Face Brainwashing.
- The first target, Suguru Kamoshida, had a variation of this. Kamoshida is meant to be as unlikable as possible; he leaks Joker's criminal record to make him an instant social pariah, abuses his students, and openly lusts for teenagers half his age. Kamoshida gets away with all of it thanks to the school protecting him because he coaches the school's star volleyball team. Several characters openly hate Kamoshida's guts, especially Ryuji and Ann, who are both victims of his abuse. Despite this, when Ryuji learns that stealing Kamoshida's twisted desires may kill him if done incorrectly, Ryuji and Joker are both hesitant to go through with it. However, Kamoshida then makes Ann's best friend Shiho attempt suicide by jumping off of the school's roof to escape the physical and sexual abuse that Kamoshida was putting Shiho through. The game also heavily implies that Kamoshida raped Shiho after she was told to come to his office (with the anime version making this more explicit). After that, Joker, Ryuji, and Ann decide they don't care if Kamoshida dies anymore; they just want him gone.
Morgana: Can I assume that you've made up your minds about this—about how [Kamoshida] might suffer a mental shutdown?
Ryuji: ...I have. Someone almost died because of him! I don't give a rat's ass what happens to him anymore! - Yusuke was long in denial about his teacher Madarame exploiting his students by stealing the credit for their work, despite having seen some evidence of it. Yusuke repeatedly insists that Madarame is innocent of the accusations, though it eventually becomes clear that Yusuke is desperately denying the man who saved his life and took him in could possibly be that bad. After facing Madarame's Shadow and seeing Madarame's true character, Yusuke summons his Persona for the first time and resolves to change his now-former mentor by force. Then, after learning that Madarame let Yusuke's mother die when she had a seizure by not calling for help, all so he could exploit her most personal work for the sake of profit, Yusuke declares that he has no more reason to forgive Madarame.
- Haru reaches this conclusion about her father when his Shadow makes it clear that he sees her as a bargaining chip for him to achieve political power, that he knowingly exploits his workers and he ultimately sees his company as a stepping stone. She then fully commits to the plan to steal her father's heart. But Haru still grieves his death after Okumura is murdered by Black Mask, and she has to watch him die on TV.
- Averted by a late-game antagonist. While the Thieves don't necessarily forgive one particular criminal for their actions, the Thieves believe redemption is still possible for them. As Black Mask, Goro Akechi reveals that he's got big-time Bastard Angst over his father, Masayoshi Shido, not acknowledging him. When the Thieves unintentionally throw a wrench into this plan, Akechi has a Villainous Breakdown, goes psychotic, and reveals that he's The Dragon for Shido who caused the mental shutdown epidemic throughout Tokyo. However, after defeating him, Akechi believes the Thieves are going to kill him, but is baffled when the Thieves try to accept him back into their ranks anyway. Even then, the Thieves admit that while they don't really forgive him for his actions, they understand why he did what he did, and want him to help them take down Shido. However, Akechi ends up holding the line for the Phantom Thieves when a cognitive version of himself shows up, and his ultimate fate is left up in the air.
- The first target, Suguru Kamoshida, had a variation of this. Kamoshida is meant to be as unlikable as possible; he leaks Joker's criminal record to make him an instant social pariah, abuses his students, and openly lusts for teenagers half his age. Kamoshida gets away with all of it thanks to the school protecting him because he coaches the school's star volleyball team. Several characters openly hate Kamoshida's guts, especially Ryuji and Ann, who are both victims of his abuse. Despite this, when Ryuji learns that stealing Kamoshida's twisted desires may kill him if done incorrectly, Ryuji and Joker are both hesitant to go through with it. However, Kamoshida then makes Ann's best friend Shiho attempt suicide by jumping off of the school's roof to escape the physical and sexual abuse that Kamoshida was putting Shiho through. The game also heavily implies that Kamoshida raped Shiho after she was told to come to his office (with the anime version making this more explicit). After that, Joker, Ryuji, and Ann decide they don't care if Kamoshida dies anymore; they just want him gone.
- The whole world comes to this conclusion with the Federation in Project Wingman. In mission 20, Sicario and the Cascadians successfully recapture the capital city of Presidia, and delegates from both sides come to the table to arrange for a ceasefire. Unfortunately, Crimson 1 arrives and nukes Presidia to oblivion with cordium bombs just as soon as negotiations were about to begin. As a result, the whole world has come to see Crimson 1’s actions as one last act of cowardly spite from the Federation, with it being heavily implied that the Federation will soon collapse.
- Ratchet & Clank (2002):
- In the original game, during the final battle with Chairmen Drek, Clank tries to talk him out of destroying Veldin, Ratchet's homeworld, to make room for the Blarg's new homeworld. However, Drek reveals that he was the one who polluted the Blarg homeworld and that he gets paid millions of bolts for every square inch of the new planet that he built. Drek also reveals that once colonization begins, he's going to repeat the process, by polluting the new world and building another planet to nab him a lot more money. Realizing that Drek was never a Well-Intentioned Extremist, Clank carries on with Ratchet to stop Drek, even blowing up the very planet that he had built.
- Subverted with Captain Qwark in Up Your Arsenal. In the first game, Qwark was revealed to have been working with Drek for money. In the second game, Going Commando, he tried to frame Ratchet and Clank for the Protopet. In Up Your Arsenal, he goes missing after the second game, and Ratchet and Clank need to find him in order to stop his old nemesis Doctor Nefarious. But two-thirds of the way through the game, Qwark fakes his death and goes into hiding again. When Ratchet and Clank find him again, he refuses to help them, and Ratchet can only walk away in disgust, saying that he had hoped that he could be a hero again. Then during the final battle with Doctor Nefarious, Qwark pulls a Big Damn Heroes moment and helps Ratchet and Clank stop Nefarious, proving that he wasn't irredeemable.
- In Skies of Arcadia, Enrique is an Anti-Villain who tries to convince his mother, Empress Teodora of Valua, that her desire for conquest is misguided. However, she not only won't be swayed, but the atrocities that Valua commits keep ramping up. Eventually, Enrique sees he can't talk his mother out of her madness and becomes a Defector from Decadence (pulling a Heel–Face Turn at the same time) by joining Vyse's crew and helping him steal the Delphinus. Upon going back to Valua after Teodora plans to summon each Gigas, Enrique tries one last time to talk Teodora into not following through with it, but she still refuses to listen. Finally fed up, Enrique draws his sword and prepares to kill his own mother to stop Valua's madness. Too bad for Enrique that Belleza knocks him out before he can, but the intent was still there.
- In Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, after Bentley discovers that Penelope is working for Le Paradox out of greed and jealousy, he confronts her in the remnants of her Moat Monster with the intent of reasoning with her. He at first asks why she betrayed himnote , before telling her he won't be a villainnote and asking if she loves money more than himnote . When Penelope refuses to listen to Bentley and babbles on of her evil plans, he has enough and calls her an idiot, before making one more plead to her by stating Le Paradox will dispose of her when she outlives her usefulness. This triggers Penelope's Villainous Breakdown and she attacks him. As a result, Bentley is convinced that Penelope is an irredeemable sociopath, and he abandons her, looking away in shame and regret.
- Spider-Man (PS4): Initially, Peter is determined to save Otto from himself and repeatedly reminds him of the good man he once was... but then Otto reveals that he knew Peter was Spider-Man all along, meaning he had planned the Sinister Six formation and release of Devil's Breath (which is killing Aunt May and countless other citizens as they speak) behind Peter's back and exploited the knowledge of their borderline father-son-esque relationship to best lure him into traps and danger. Hearing this, Peter stops holding back and beats Otto down, sadly acknowledging his hero is beyond saving.
- Tales Series
- At the end of Tales of Symphonia, when Mithos has been reduced to his soul residing in his Cruxis Crystal, he insists that the party destroy the Cruxis Crystal, stating that if Lloyd doesn't, Mithos will be trapped in the crystal forever as a Fate Worse than Death, and Lloyd will be unable to save the world. He tells the party that he has no regrets for what he’s done in the past four thousand years: splitting the world in two, having the two worlds compete for mana, have the Desians terrorize the world losing mana, and having young humans make a Senseless Sacrifice to bring back mana, all so that he could find/create a vessel for his sister’s soul, and says that he would do it all again just to see his sister again. This causes Lloyd to decide to destroy Mithos’ Cruxis Crystal, as it shows that Mithos will never move on from his sister’s death and will never let go of his hatred for humans. That being said, Genis sees this as a Mercy Kill for his former friend, and Lloyd still feels some sorrow for how Mithos turned out.
- In Tales of the Abyss, when Van is revealed to be a traitor, Luke and Tear are in denial at first, the former because Van is his teacher and the latter because Van is her brother. After the events of Akzeriuth, in which Van manipulates Luke into destroying a town, thus starting a war between Kimlasca and Malkuth, as well as putting other communities in danger, both Luke and Tear come to accept that Van has to be stopped, one way or another. Near the end, when Van is in the final stages of carrying out his plan to replace the world with replicas, the party tries to present Van with an alternative and show how his plan to Screw Destiny is ultimately flawed. Van rejects the party because he's come too far to back down now. With all other options now gone, the party is forced to kill Van to stop him from going through with it.
- Tales of Vesperia:
- When Commandant Alexei is revealed to be a traitor, Flynn tries multiple times to get him to stop. Even after he Mind Rapes Estelle and floods Zaphias with tainted aer, Flynn still tries to get Alexei to go back to his old ways. It's not until Zaude, when Alexei tries to kill Yuri, that Flynn gives up on Alexei.
- Yuri inverts this on himself, believing that he'll never be a good guy anymore. He flat out tells Flynn that he's already dirtied his hands, and later tells Sodia that he admits that he's a criminal, and that he's willing to do whatever it takes to bring about justice. Estelle disagrees, as she insists that he would only turn his blade on someone who deserved it and that as long as Yuri has her and his friends, then he's not truly beyond redemption.
- Tales of Arise: Discussed in the Beyond the Dawn DLC, which takes place long after Alphen's failed attempt to convince the other Sovereign, Vholran, to let go of his hatred and lust for power. Dohalim believes that convincing Vholran to redeem himself was impossible and nothing Alphen says could have changed the outcome, since Vholran is an Omnicidal Maniac who would do anything to feel more powerful than everyone else. However, Alphen notes that Vholran likely considered his refusal the only bit of freedom he has left, and that it's a folly to forgive Vholran without considering how the latter feels. Alphen fears that he might fail to redeem Nazamil as well if he makes another half-baked attempt at forgiveness.
- World of Warcraft:
- With the exception of Jaina Proudmoore, this is everyone's opinion on Arthas, the former paladin turned Lich King. A quest in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion has the Champion discover that Arthas had removed his own heart and discarded it into the depths below the Icecrown Citadel. When Tirion Fordring is informed of this, he and the Champion infiltrate the Icecrown Citadel to find the heart and see if there is a chance that Arthas could be redeemed. When Arthas sees through their disguise, Arthas dares Fordring to look into his heart to see if he truly is redeemable. When Fordring does, he destroys the heart with the Ash Bringer and escapes the Citadel with the Champion before Arthas can kill them. Fordring informs the Champion that he destroyed the heart because when he looked into it, he saw that there was nothing left of Arthas to save.note
- This is most of the Red Dragonflight's opinion on the Black Dragonflight, as expressed by Lirastraza in the "Blackout" quest description, in which she says "We are past all hope of peace. Past hope for their redemption." The only exception is Rheastraza, who manages to purify a black dragon egg, the hatchling of which grows up to be Wrathion.
- Ever since Sylvannas Windrunner's Came Back Wrong, she has become a Card-Carrying Villain, but one who was sympathized for being persecuted as an undead and assisting the Horde, even becoming their Warchief. It's not until the Burning of Teldarassil, an act that killed thousands of elven families and was less productive than simply enslaving the city, that most of Azeroth agree that Sylvanas has gone from revenge to outright megalomania and that she needs to be stopped at any costs.
Visual Novels
- In the epilogue of Dies Irae it is revealed that while everyone else of the villains are allowed to reincarnate into better lives as decreed by Marie's desire, the Big Bad Reinhard is instead cursed to always walk with uncertainty in his soul, never finding true fulfillment in his lives, present or future. As Marie's wish dictates that everyone should be able to reincarnate and have a second chance at a better life, this is the next best thing to serve as a punishment. As while the other villains were seen as products of their environment, Reinhard is seen as a beast that must always be kept on a tight leash and whose very nature is a threat.
- Fate/stay night, Heaven's Feel route: Sparing Saber Alter because Shirou can't bring himself to kill his friend results in a Bad End. Shirou has to kill Saber in order to progress the story, regardless of what this means for Saber (other than that she's okay with it).
- In the Game Mod Monika Before Story, the Club President/MC undergoes a case of Adaptational Villainy and is the only character who is presented as being completely beyond any chance of redemption.
- Pumpkin Eater: The Girl endures her parents' abuse out of the hope that they will eventually accept that her brother died and let them all move on with their lives. Then the Mother murders another little boy as a replacement for her brother's rotted corpse, forcing the Girl to recognize that things will never get better.
Web Animation
- Helluva Boss features a ridiculously petty example — after C.H.E.R.U.B accidentally causes the death of a human they were trying to save while fighting I.M.P, their boss Deerie informs them that not only are they barred from returning to Heaven, but there is nothing they can do that will ever reverse this decision. This also paints a dim picture of Charlie's plans in Hazbin Hotel, as the two shows are set in a Shared Universe.
- In RWBY, when Salem starts her invasion in Atlas, the heroes have concluded that James Ironwood can’t be reasoned with by the end of Volume 7 and throughout Volume 8. When Oscar tries to warn Ironwood that he’s becoming as dangerous as Salem, Ironwood’s response is to shoot him. Winter, who stayed by Ironwood’s side until she learned that he wasn’t bluffing about blowing up Mantle, decides he needs to be stopped. She pretends to still be on the General’s side and Ironwood tells her that he hopes she won’t try to talk him out of this. When Winter prepares to fight him, she calls the General "an enemy of Atlas".
- The web series Llamas with Hats focuses on two characters: Carl, a self proclaimed "dangerous sociopath with a long history of violence", and Paul, a friend of Carl's who becomes more horrified by Carl with each passing episode. Eventually, Carl would horrify Paul so badly that Paul would move out and sever ties with Carl, leading to Carl's violence escalating until he killed everyone on the planet. The creator would ultimately make an epilogue to the series after it ended wherein Carl finds himself in a surreal void speaking with a tube of meat, a faceless version of Paul, and an acorn, all of which claim Carl cannot find redemption. Carl refuses to accept this until he remembers he is the reason Paul died and accepts that his actions have made him irredeemable.
Webcomics
- Joe's parents in Joe vs. Elan School become a Hate Sink after Joe returns home from the titular Juvenile Hell, revealing themselves to be emotional and financial abusers who bait Joe into shouting matches, who casually reveal that they left him in the titular abusive school for three years even though his drug charge was dropped three months into his stay, refuse to believe him about the school's abuses, and refuse to acknowledge that anything they did contributed to his issues. Eventually, in a "Where Are They Now?" Epilogue taking place during a Time Skip, Joe's narration bluntly states that after he moves away from home for good, his parents divorce each other, adding that, "They have no redemption arc in this story."
- The Order of the Stick: After Roy tries so hard for so long demanding that his father Eugene be a better man, culminating in a request to help him scry the living, Roy decides he just wants nothing more to do with Eugene. Even after dealing with the literal forces of the universe, Eugene is too arrogant and selfish to ever want to be a better man, which Roy comes to sadly acknowledge. This judgment proves accurate when Eugene tries to convince Roy to not stop the High Priest of Hel, on the basis of wanting his Blood Oath of Vengeance to be fulfilled. Eugene not caring who has been or will be killed in the process of getting this vengeance pushes Roy over the line for good.
Web Videos
- In Campaign Three of Critical Role, Imogen repeatedly tries to get her mother Liliana to pull a Heel–Face Turn after it's revealed that she's been working with one of the villains, which comes to a head in episode 89. Imogen tries reaching out to Liliana in her dreams. Imogen succeeds, and tries to talk Liliana into switching sides once again. Liliana refuses, gives many excuses as before, and reiterates that she always just wanted Imogen to run from the conflict. Imogen finally has enough and ends the conversation by saying "Maybe it's your turn to run" to Liliana, showing that Imogen is done trying to talk.
- Dr. Glaucomflecken: The Psychiatrist calls
private equity investor Bartholomew Banks this to his face, and we've seen no evidence that he's wrong.
Bartholomew Banks: So, how do we do this therapy session? Do you treat me with kindness and compassion and set me on a path towards enlightenment?
Psychiatry: You are evil and beyond redemption. - Vampires SMP: By the finale, among the castle vampire faction, thanks to their bloodthirst, misanthropy, and active choice to continue perpetuating the cycle of violence, Owen and Pyro are deemed to be too dangerous to be left alive, and that the world is better off with them dead. In spite of his equally callous past, Scott avoids this fate and survives the series by learning to choose peace and work towards a better future instead.
